Curse

Nectarine · Oct 13, 2005, 06:07 PM // 18:07

I get irritated by people who get and give runs everywhere. Not only do they block up channels with painfully irritating spam. But they aren't really playing the game how it's supposed to be played when they have the best armour in the game at tenth level.

This wouldn't bother me if it wasn't for the fact that when I try to find a group to join with, I discover that some of them already have this super armour. I want to have to do the battles as difficult as they were intended. Elementalists and monks shouldn't be able to act like tanks.

I think there should be level limits on the armour, maybe so that you can't get that armour unless your char is at least the same level as the henchmen in that area.

One argument against this is that, it really don't make any difference what the skill of a person is, they would technically be able to wear any armour. But it's no sillier then the weapon attribute requirements.

Actually I think that would be the best way to implement it. Have it so that there are requirements but they still can wear the armour. It's just less effective just like with weapons. Make it so that if you buy 15k armour and you're a level 10 char, it will only work as well as the armour that the level 10 henchmen have.

This would certainly be seen as a direct nerf and annoy alot of people. Too bad for them! HA!
Seriously though I doubt something like this would be implemented simply because tons of people would winge endlessly about it.

Pity though, because it's ruining my experience of replaying different classes through the low levels. Grouping with teams that have been run to droknar's makes it all way too easy, and you don't know it till you ask them.

Does anyone else agree with this?

Or at least does anyone else agree, that all the runners and runnee's around the place shouting in full capital letters, are bloody annoying?

zehly · Oct 13, 2005, 06:09 PM // 18:09

I think this has already been flamed.. er.. discussed in every other thread here. I'm sure there will eventually be a fix to this. For now, we just have to deal with it.

lishi · Oct 13, 2005, 08:49 PM // 20:49

im not discussing about the run

but if i read

"playing the game how it's supposed to be played"

one more time im gonna puke

D.E.V.i.A.N.C.E · Oct 13, 2005, 08:52 PM // 20:52

how about these lv 16's in pre ascalon faction farming off j00 lv 1 - 9 nubz
;D i have yet to hear about this^

Armor Level and Character level go hand in hand.

so its not like a lv 11 can go around lv 16s and get hit for 13 dmg.. no I still get hit with 113dmg with an armor level of 70...

Mavrik · Oct 13, 2005, 08:54 PM // 20:54

there is no exact path on "This is how the game is suppose to be played" as most areas can be traveled to from ANY point in the game. Wanna stop running? Ok... cut off EVERY access portal to every area that is not the area outside a town... then all those middle inbetween places can not be accessed at all period... or ran through. If someone wants to go post searing and walk all the way from ascalon to Santum Cay, map to desert and ascend or what ever... we are all free to play the game how we want.

As for an armor cap based on character lv? I am 100% against that. What does it matter to you if the group your in during PvE is wearing droknar armor? Team with hench then for a challange... If you've played the game, you'll know by the time you get th Kryta... any advantage you had with droknar armor is pretty much gone.

I do believe though that a cap on armor needs to be set in place for lower arenas and thats it.

Sniper22 · Oct 13, 2005, 09:48 PM // 21:48

ya i agree with mavric, and on the lower arenas too
Maybe max armor AND skills will be up to yaks bend for the ascalon arena, and yaks bend arena will be up to lions arch. If you don't have the required armor you can just borrow a pvp only set from an npc. As long has low lvl players don't have high armor in the lower arenas, everything is fine.

Rey Lentless · Oct 13, 2005, 10:58 PM // 22:58

Quote:

But they aren't really playing the game how it's supposed to be played

People shouldn't have you deciding that for them. In fact I would argue that it IS the way it's meant to be played because it's an available option. I wouldn't bother running or being ran, but I do know people who were tired of pve and having higher level armor made it easier for them to progress through the game for the 3rd or 4th time.

The lower level arenas are already broken and have flaws beyond end game armor and skills used there.

tuperwho · Oct 13, 2005, 11:07 PM // 23:07

Nectarine, I respect what you're saying, but you're wasting your breath (or fingerstrokes). It will never happen.

EternalTempest · Oct 13, 2005, 11:13 PM // 23:13

They had it in the beta if I remember correctly but was removed before it went live. My only objection is the max lvl armor and elite skills being used against new players right out of pre in the low level arena's. I would have them address this problem and not try and cut off running.

I honestly think that anet doesn't care about running issues (and reason why to not fix it) or the fact that this has become part of the "culture" and a change would be too much of a culture shock and they would lose too many players in the process.

A better solution would be that once you reach yak's end, you can't go back and do asclon arena no matter what. Still give runners for arean's to max there character and faction farm but not scare off new players to pvp. Also, the 15-20 is made to pretty quick that you can jump in the random 4x4 arena's in Lions Arch that would not suffer from this problem as much.

I think requirments were removed due to the grind vs no-grind design of the game.

Nectarine · Oct 14, 2005, 12:03 AM // 00:03

Actually I don't really care about the running other then it clogs the local chat channel, but no more then people using it to trade instead of the trade channel.

I just get sick of joining party's that have the 1.5k armour. What I mean about playing the quests the way it's designed, is just that I want the quests to be a challenge.

I usually just do it with henchmen now.
And no, I don't expect it to change. I just wish it would.

Mavrik · Oct 14, 2005, 01:29 AM // 01:29

running spams don't bother me at all... its no worse then the trading spams done outside the trading channel.

widowdaballa · Oct 14, 2005, 01:47 AM // 01:47

It will change. Well, as far as the lower level arenas part goes. As for the PvE part, im not too sure about that. But it would be nice to have like a req for higher lvl armors. Like you said, they don't have req on the armors, but they do on the weapons? If im able to wear 15k armor(at it's full potential, protection, power, however you want to say it) as a lvl 5, then i should be able to wield a max damage gold Dragon Sword at lvl 5 as well. If I need a level 9 swordmanship req. to achieve it's maximum damage, I am req to add attribute points to my swordmanship to achieve the skill lvl needed to get that max dmg. Same should go for Armor. Perhaps an armor skill that you can lvl up, in order to get the full potential of your armor. Meaning you can still wear it, but you won't get it's full potential if you don't meet it's requirement. They could add some more att. points into the game to allow us to do that, so that you won't have to lose att points in other skills just to wear the armor. I know, i know, there are some people that will say, their's a difference in needing a skill req for using a sword, bow, etc., but no skill to wear armor. Well, put it this way; would a 10 yr old boy be able to wear the same armor a 25 yr old man would? Im not putting size into context here, but the strength to wear it. I used ages to differentiate between a lvl 5 and a lvl 20. This, i believe would be a good skill to implement into the game so that you don't take away the ability to wear armor at lvl 1, for those of you who don't wanna waste money and materials for lower armors like me, but we must still work to be able to use that armors' AL to it's full potential. In a situation like that, I would just have to go thru 2 armors. One for lets say lion's arch, then drok's armor.

pyrohex · Oct 14, 2005, 02:38 PM // 14:38

If you really wanted to get into what "makes sense", armor would still be uneffected. Your characters begin in the prime of their lives; healthy, strong, full of vitality - just unskilled. Skill doesn't determine what kind of clothing you're capable of wearing.

Weapons, on the other hand, do require skill to use. An unskilled man running around with a big sword could do some damage, but nothing close to what a skilled man with a big sword could do.

In other words; armor requirements are...stupid? "Unrealistic", if you will. I believe ANet has actually addressed this question, responding that they do not believe armor level requirements are in the best interest of the game.

I believe, but am not sure, that armor level requirements existed in beta. If it did, ANet removed it for some reason.

lishi · Oct 19, 2005, 11:35 PM // 23:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rivers

so {["available option"]} scamming people, did Anet intentionally put that in?

im pretty sure that the invinci monk {["available option"]} (in FoW) wasnt planned since they nerfed it.

same stuff happens in real life, so stealing a tv from your house is how life is ment to be just becuase the {["available option"]} of doing it is available?.

Just becuase you can do somthing, doesnt mean you have/should do it.

you can't decide the way of other people want play.

The developer can impose it and they sayed running is fine as long the armor arent used in low level arena

calamitykell · Oct 20, 2005, 03:39 AM // 03:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rivers

so {["available option"]} scamming people, did Anet intentionally put that in?

im pretty sure that the invinci monk {["available option"]} (in FoW) wasnt planned since they nerfed it.

same stuff happens in real life, so stealing a tv from your house is how life is ment to be just becuase the {["available option"]} of doing it is available?.

Just becuase you can do somthing, doesnt mean you have/should do it.

Silly post. ANet has said the put had the option for running in the game on purpose. I'll paraphrase since I don't have an exact link, but they said something like "If someone wants to power-level their friend, we don't see why they shouldn't be allowed to do that."

And yes, there WERE level requirements on armor in the Betas. I was glad to see they removed them. If you want to play how you want to play, do so. I'll play how I want. And everyone else will play how THEY want. Is my running to Forge to get armor then grouping with you in Bloodstone Fen forcing you to play a certain way? Absolutely not. Get over yourself, already.

The only exception are the early arenas. Level 8s should not have forge armor in Ascalon Arena. But that's PvP, not PvE, so it makes sense to restrict it for fairness.

Again, get over yourself. This game isn't here to cater to you above everyone else.

Quote:

Originally Posted by widowdaballa

Perhaps an armor skill that you can lvl up, in order to get the full potential of your armor. Meaning you can still wear it, but you won't get it's full potential if you don't meet it's requirement. They could add some more att. points into the game to allow us to do that, so that you won't have to lose att points in other skills just to wear the armor.

Yes, more attribute points! Since casters die so easily anyway, they can avoid the 15k armor and use those attribute points to make their other stats even HIGHER. Yeah, THAT'S A GREAT IDEA.

calamitykell · Oct 20, 2005, 03:46 AM // 03:46

damn, accidentally posted again instead of editing previous one. sorry >.<

lishi · Oct 20, 2005, 07:46 AM // 07:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rivers

i dont care how you play GW (e.g.you bring knights armor to bloodstone fen (i did it)),

what i meant is that just becuase you can do it doesnt mean you should do it

They only way i do care how you play is if you bring that armor into the ascolon arena, A person who has been playing for a week with 1k max shouldnt be forced to try and kill a lvl 10 War/mo with knights armor in that arena.

This is what Guild Wars said about it "If we find that players are using runners to develop a character that is then abusive in PvP play by virtue of their higher-level acquisitions (particularly armor) we will need to take steps to prevent this"

this can be found here : http://guildwars.gameamp.com/guildwars/gwInterview

so basicly this isn't how the develpoers intended the game to be

did you have read entire question/answer?

Quote:

GameAmp:
I've always loved to see what "roles" gamers invent that were not intended by the developers upon the release of the game. One of the more popular of these roles is the game's growing population of runners that allow low level players to "hitch a ride" to the higher level zones in the game. The most popular run is obviously the Lornar's Pass run that allows a player to reach Droknor's Forge through Beacon's Pearch with the aid of a competent runner. Running has turned into a fun mini-game for a portion of the game's population but it also gives the ability for low level players to reach content they should not be permitted to access. It would be a shame to make Lornar's Pass un-runnable but "twinking" low level characters is often something that the developers address with an iron fist. Are precautions being taken to put level requirements on some of the higher level zone portals or perhaps even the armor purchased at the higher stages of the game without completely crippling the runner's ability to be unique?

Guild Wars:

Wanna know a secret? We put in the ability to make such runs as an intended design element. Sure we could prevent it, but it's not our objective to do so. If people want to power-level a friend, or even turn offering a running service into a cash-raising profession, it's really ok with us.

There are two ways in which it would not be ok:

" If someone scams players by taking money and not making the run, they become a nuisance factor rather than a clever entrepreneur, and we would take action on that account.

" If we find that players are using runners to develop a character that is then abusive in PvP play by virtue of their higher-level acquisitions (particularly armor) we will need to take steps to prevent this.

In other words, to the extent that a practice like "running" or taking a shortcut might negatively affect other players, we'll be taking a look at it very carefully. If there's a lot of abuse of lower-level characters (those who are playing through the missions) by those who are taking the shortcut, we'll address it. I note that we did not choose to address the matter with last night's major game update, and I believe that is because the possible problems are not evident to such a degree that we need to make an amendment. But I just spoke with Lead Designer James Phinney, and he assured me that we will continue to assess the situation and we will come up with solutions if the scales tip towards the negative.